Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 1

Bell: Not all of you will be familiar with Joyce Riley. Joyce Riley is a nurse. Joyce Riley began treating Gulf War Vets as they came back. She was a Captain and she began to notice that there was something going on with the Gulf War Vets and then with their families and then with their friends that could not be accounted for with anything that had been explained, yet. That’s how she became involved in this whole thing. I should let her explain it really in her own words. Joyce, are you there?


Riley: Yes I am, thank you, Art.

Bell: Thank you. That’s too short a version of how you became involved in all of this. We have a lot of new affiliates, since the last time you were on Joyce, we’re just growing like a weed so we really need for you to explain, if you would please, how this began for you, again.

Riley: Well, I became involved in this because I became ill. Part of the story, that is the most important with the whole issue concerning the Gulf War Illness, is the fact that we believe it is communicable.....we know it is communicable. I became ill after serving, from January to July of 1991, as a reserve flight nurse. I was originally in Houston...went to San Antonio....volunteered to go with Kelly Air Force Base to Saudi Arabia. I did not go, as the cease fire came, and I simply did missions throughout the United States, Cuba, Alaska, and that was pretty much what I did. I came in contact with troops that were returning from the Persian Gulf. From January to July, I flew. From July to December, I became ill. By December I was hospitalized and I had a demyelinating disease, diagnosed as almost like multiple sclerosis , but not quite. I was discharged from the hospital with the diagnosis of an unknown central nervous system disease. I had been perfectly healthy prior to the war. I had not gone into the theater of operations and I had a lot of unanswered questions. When I began to ask these questions, there were no answers to be found, in fact, there was a stonewall. There was no interest at all, from the units, as to why we were becoming incredibly tired.....fatigued.....finding it very difficult to function.....almost in a debilitated fashion.

Bell: Uh huh.

Riley: So, I started looking for these answers and it took me quite a while but, as a result of all of that.....and, by the way, my disease process....whatever it was.....was stabilized...... I do not have MS at this point. I was treated with antibiotics, with some steroids in the hospital, I regained the use of my legs....totally and I became very, very inquisitive as to what in the world had gone on. Then I heard about other people with the same type of problem. Now, when you start putting together all of these factors and those people who were will who went into the Persian Gulf....and they call it the Persian Gulf Illness many times......and the Department of Defense has designated a Persian Gulf Registry....they exclude those of us who did not go to the Persian Gulf. That immediately told me something was wrong because they weren’t interested in talking to anyone who went over there but, from an epidemiological standpoint, one has to look at.....well, if you’ve got people sick who didn’t go over there, with the same disease maybe we need to look at the corollaries. Those corollaries were, I came in contact with the troops, with their equipment, and I had pretty much the same immunizations as they did. So, that takes me up to 1993, 1994, 1995 when I met Dr. Garth Nicholson, who was a Professor of Medicine, Ph.D. professor....scientist.....and a Nobel Prize nominee at the Indy Anderson Cancer Center. He had identified a biological warfare agent and had startled the nation, when he came forward with this information, and was somewhat professionally assassinated, I would say. There was a lot of negative talk about him, at that time, at the Texas Medical Center where I worked. I was a heart transplant nurse, at the time. I began to talk with him and see that he had evidence supporting what he was saying.

Bell: Uh huh.

Riley: I took this information, realizing that his daughter had had pretty much the similar disease....his wife had become ill... his whole entire family had become ill. He had gone to the lab and identified a biological warfare agent called mycoplasma fermentis incognitas. At that point, I realized that there was more to this story. Someone came to me with some documents, at that time, and showed me the transfer of biological agents to Saddam Hussein....on some documents. This totally shocked me because I had no idea we were talking about anything other than....maybe some sand fleas had bitten people....perhaps I had gotten a bad immunization....or something like that....and the story changed totally, at that point.

Bell: You’re talking about documents that show that we, the United States or other countries, sent biological agents to Iraq?

Riley: Absolutely! I am not saying that is my opinion. I am saying I have evidence of that. In fact, that information has been released in something that is called The Reigle Report. You will have a lot of trouble getting it from the US Government because they don’t like it being out there and they are now charging $100.00 for the document. In this document, which is Senate Report 103-900, Senator Don Reigle reported that the US Government knowingly sold biological and chemical agents to Saddam Hussein. They knowingly sold, with full recognition of the US Government....the CDC....and the Department of Commerce. In this list, and I have a list of them along with the dates of transfer to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission and the batch numbers.

Bell: Joyce, that’s an insane action. There is no other word to describe that. That’s an insane action. You send your enemies weapons of mass destruction. We’ve been hearing a lot about that lately, you know, in the Denver trial. Weapons of mass destruction.....a biological weapon is, indeed, a weapon of mass destruction and we provided our own enemy with weapons of mass destruction. That’s total insanity.

Riley: It is and even Don Reigle, Senator Reigle, stated that in the Reigle Report. He said it was unbelievable to him when they found out that we had exported these items to Saddam Hussein and right into the military circuit....there was no subterfuge about this.....it went directly into military warfare. Now, why we would do this, I don’t know. Of course, a defensive argument is posed that the United States Government was helping out Iraq against Iran. We were trying to help Saddam Hussein, originally during the Iran-Iraq War, beat Iran. Well, evidence has shown now that we were providing to Iran-Iraq....both at the same time.

Bell: Well now, wait a minute. Let’s back up even from that. Suppose that is the rational, and I’ve brought that up with you before, wasn’t there this thing about the Geneva Convention? Isn’t there something there?

Riley: Well, absolutely! We violated, and I think this gets to the heart of this whole issue, is we violated tremendous political.....tremendous international regulations. There are tremendous political and criminal implications for what we have done because there was, in 1969, President Nixon said no more biological weapons....no more stockpiling....no more producing.....no more selling.....no more shipping.....however, we find that not to be true at this point. What happened was, instead of the US Government saying no more biological weapons, they said we’re not going to do it but we’re going to do it so that other people don’t know we’re doing it so they did it through universities.

Bell: You know, Joyce, what bothers me about what I’m hearing here and in so many other arenas is that and I can tell you, personally, that I’m becoming cynical. It’s getting to the point where, when the US Government says we will no longer stockpile, use nor develop biological weapons or chemical weapons, I have come to read that as an absolute lie....a reversal. In other words, when they make a statement like that, I understand that I should read it the exact opposite way and I don’t even know if the word is cynical because it’s true.

Riley: Well, I think that’s what a lot of people are doing right now. I am very concerned, I have to admit to you, about the credibility of the Defense Department. I am very concerned. In the Reigle Report, Senator Don Reigle said, “Your reputation,” Defense Department he was speaking to, “will be in shambles.”

Bell: Ya.

Riley: Now, this is the problem we’re going to have because you know, right now, you don’t even hear the word biological from the Department of Defense, the CIA, the VA, or wherever.

Bell: They are containing the controversy to chemical. In other words, any discussion you hear about it, well......chemical weapons at Kamasiya (sp)......maybe chemical weapons in SCUDs......maybe chemicals ......maybe.....maybe.....maybe....but we don’t think so. You’re right, never ever biological.

Riley: No, because that violated Geneva Convention Regulations of 1972. That violated those international agreements and both Iraq and the US were signatories to this agreement. We now know and suspect that about 13 countries now have these biological agents.

Bell: I’m sure.

Riley: Which, I think we can thank the United States for a lot of it as well as Russia, they are very big into biological warfare and we are just now learning how proficient they are. They now have something called Nova Shock, many people have heard of that, for which there is no antidote.

Bell: I have not. What is Nova Shock?

Riley: I don’t know any of the bacteriological composition but I do know that Nova Shock has been listed and has been talked about by several of the Soviet representatives as well as the fact that it has even been discussed in American Legion magazine by one of the scientists they talked with who revealed that the Soviets do have Nova Shock, for which there is no antidote whatsoever. It is a super biological agent.

Bell: Do you know any of the alleged affects of it?

Riley: Death.

Bell: Death.

Riley: Yes.

Bell: Fast?

Riley: Yes, to my knowledge. Here again I hate to say too much about it because I am, obviously, not an expert on that. What we’re looking at is something that is not just the Gulf War. We’re looking at something that has been going on since 1925 when they began chemical weapons. You see, the chemical weapons ban was originally signed in 1925....if you can imagine. So, we have a history of chemical and biological weapons that the American public, heretofore, has pretty much not been knowledgeable about. Of course, we left it to the government....they would do the best thing for us....they would never hurt us so we didn’t pay much attention. There’s no reason to be involved in it other than now we are wondering, where are all these illnesses coming from? Why are we having outbreaks of things that have never been seen before and the credibility factor with the US Government. I must say......

Bell: That’s the most dangerous of all and I really mean dangerous. We’ll be right back with Joyce Riley.


Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 2

Bell: I’ve said this on previous shows......again, Joyce Riley coming back on in a moment. A lot of people sit back, I’m sure, and say “Gulf War Illness, ya, bad, but hey, you know, it doesn’t affect me....big deal.” WRONG! Whatever it is that has been brought back from the Gulf, is infecting family members and now friends and others who have had contact with Gulf War veterans. In other words, ladies and gentlemen, something biological....something bad is loose in our country. Did we win the Gulf War? It may be that only time will tell.

Bell: Alright, back now to Joyce Riley. Joyce, is that an accurate description? I try to remember that we’re talking to the general public here and they are that way. I mean they say, “Oh, it’s terrible....Gulf War Illness.....big controversy.....but, you know, I wasn’t there.....it doesn’t affect me.....won’t affect me.”

Riley: Well, that’s true. I’ll tell you, I got a phone call yesterday from a gentleman in Mississippi who deals in military surplus. He has now become ill with the disease as has his wife and he is furious. He is absolutely furious and he told me he is going to make some noise.

Bell: So, in other words he was just dealing with equipment that was coming back from the Gulf.

Riley: That’s correct and this is not the first report. We’ve had many reports of people who have been dealing in surplus equipment now having problems.....so that’s one thing. The other thing is that now nurses and doctors taking care of the Gulf War veterans patients are becoming ill.

Bell: There is one other thing I want to ask you about, Joyce. If you were a GI and you had orders to go to Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, or wherever it is you’re gonna go in the area now, would you be....should you be concerned?

Riley: Oh definitely, absolutely be concerned. I’m concerned. I still have my commission in the Air Force as a Captain and as an inactive reservist. I am very concerned. We have had numerous reports from vets or from troops that have returned from 3 months rotation, especially out of Eckland Air Force Base, I think it’s the 35th Tactical Fighter Wing out of Ft. Hood, Texas, these people are going over for 3 months rotation and coming back quite ill.

Bell: That’s right.

Riley: Now they’re calling and saying , “I’ve got the same symptoms. I’ve got the same rash and I was over there in ‘95 or ‘94 or ‘93.” Well, the biological agents, which we are most concerned about at this point in time.....not that we’re not concerned about chemical and we do need to differentiate between chemical and biological.....but the biological agents are the ones you bring home and give to your family. Those are the ones that can be transferred into the general population. That is where we are very much concerned as to whether we have a good blood supply right now or not because so many people that donate blood are military.

Bell: Everybody should remember the AIDS problem, in other words, with respect to the blood supply. For years and years......mostly unknowingly and occasionally knowingly, which resulted in a lot of lawsuits....there was bad blood out there. Tainted blood and it killed uncounted numbers of people so the American people need to be cautious when somebody like you says ‘look out, the blood supply may be tainted.’ You better listen because it’s not like the first time.

Riley: That’s right. We even took out a full page ad in the Washington Times and we stated our case. You see, the Gulf War veterans had to take up a donation to get a full page announcement to tell the American public the other side of the story that the Department of Defense is not telling them. We are either living in tyranny right now or we have subjected ourselves to a situation in which we are allowing a CIA, a Pentagon and a Department of Defense to lie to us because that is what we are seeing in the headlines of the newspaper.

Bell: Alright, listen, there is a report out today. CNN is running the hell out of it. I’ve got a Reuters copy of it right here entitled, “BIRTH DEFECTS NO HIGHER FOR GULF WAR VET KIDS” and this is something you and I have discussed before. They have studied, they say......or using the records, they say, or more than 75,000 children born at military hospitals, the team found the overall risk of any birth defect was 7.45% and the risk of severe birth defects was 1.85%. These rates are similar to the ones found in the civilian population, the researchers said.

Riley: Well, I heard that this study, and I cannot confirm it because I haven’t gotten the hard copy of it yet, but I understand that this study does not utilize people who went to the Persian Gulf, if you can imagine that. This is a study that excluded those that went to the Persian Gulf. Does your copy of Reuters state specifically that they were Persian Gulf veterans?

Bell: Well, let me see. The study, based on Defense Department data, is likely to fuel debate over some Gulf War vets that say that they and their offspring have had health problems as a result of serving in the war. Now here we go, Cowan and his team, said the research had limitations. Only children born in military hospitals were included and the team was unable to study children born after their parents left active duty or babies born to people serving in the military reserves. The study also did not look at the rate of birth defects in aborted or stillborn children. Oh my. In addition, it only measured defects apparent at birth. Defects that appeared later in life or were spotted in non-military hospitals or outpatient clinics would have been missed. So, this is not exactly a really scientific study and moreover, Joyce, it was sponsored by the Pentagon.

Riley: Well, anything that has the DOD attached to it, I’m not even going to evaluate as being halfway or even potentially accurate. Unfortunately, because we have been lied to so many times, there is no question that the birth defects are higher. Nation magazine, January of 1995, said that 67% of all babies born to sick Gulf War veterans were having some type of birth defect or birth problems.

Bell: Now, that’s so outrageously different than this report that I just don’t know what to conclude about that. I think I conclude, and even CNN in their coverage of this report, seemed to suggest that they thought that it as bull. So, I mean, at the end of the day here.....what we’re talking about is public relations management.....studies designed to yield a very specific result to affect the public’s view. In other words, they’re saying there is no problem here.

Riley: Well, they want the American public confused over this issue. In fact, most journalists tell me they don’t even want to see another Gulf War story come over the transom because they’re so tired of dealing with Gulf War illness stories because there is so much confusion. It is predesigned to be that way. It is called disinformation. What we are seeing is exactly what they want. Now, I have evidence in front of me, in fact we make it available at the American Gulf War Veterans
Association and we have the entire 550 page Reigle Report now available, and I will tell you that, in there, is all the evidence you need to show that the Pentagon is lying. They have known, since day one, that chemicals and biologicals were used. There is an intent, to not only confuse the public, but to deny the Gulf War veterans treatment and I have made, to the media, some very, very serious charges......

Bell: I know.

Riley: .....on behalf of the American Gulf War Veterans Association.

Bell: I understand and I have learned, through hard personal experience, Joyce, that the media.....it’s either laziness or
malfeasance......somewhere in between those two. The media decides it is going to tell a story a certain way, either because it is being told to do that or internally it makes it’s own decision to do that.....it’s always hard to know.....but God help anybody who tries to get facts out that will conflict with the way the media wants to tell a story.

Riley: You’re exactly right. I believe, at this point in time, the media is essentially the 4th arm of the government. I believe that very strongly because I have been working with them so long and put out so many news releases, have provided so much information and yet, even the Wall Street Journal, will tell me that ‘they know it’ but they’re not going to run the story. I’ve had Dateline.....20/20....

Bell: Even the Wall Street Journal, now wait a minute now, back up. They told you ‘they know it’s true’ but they’re not going to run the story,
is that right?

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: Do you want to name the individual at the Wall Street Journal who told you that?

Riley: Well, it’s been 2 years. I wish I could recall but I don’t offhand recall who it is. It’s the Texas reporter, assigned to the Texas area here, and I was approaching him with the story regarding the sale of biologicals to Saddam Hussein and the fact that the United States government participated in this and created the environment in the first place. He said, ‘that’s an old story and everybody knows that and we’re not going to run it’. I said, ‘I don’t think everybody knows it.’

Bell: Oh, God.

Riley: It’s like that with all the media. Now Extra, a TV program called Extra just recently ran the truth about the Gulf War Illness.

Bell: Yes.

Riley: They ran 5 segments. They were here and filmed for about 6 hours. They had General Schwartzkoff’s bodyguard, on TV, giving his statement, also.

Bell: Alright, this was, I think, after you appeared on my program and played that segment. How long is that segment, Joyce?

Riley: Well, there are several of them. It runs probably.....all totaled....about 3 minutes.

Bell: Alright, let’s play that segment. Go ahead and set it up.

Riley: Okay. First of all you’re going to hear from General Schwartzkoff, himself. This is his testimony, January 29 of 1997. He was not sworn in. He came in....made a statement.....and my phone rang off the hook that night because his men were furious that he had lied to the American public. The first statement is regarding Kamisiya. Now let’s identify what Kamisiya is because that’s the biggest smoke screen we’ve got going right now. Kamisiya is a bunker complex. There were about 29 other bunker complexes just like Kamisiya but you haven’t heard about it because there wasn’t a video for us to take to 60 minutes such as Brian Martin did of Niles, Michigan.

Bell: Here, here.

Riley: He took a video in....said, ‘here is the inside of Kamisiya.” The Department of Defense, all of a sudden, found the information regarding Kamisiya, came forward with a news conference and admitted to it. Kamisiya is 100 bunkers in 40 warehouses, each the size of a Wal-Mart.....that is floor to ceiling.

Bell: That’s gigantic. I mean, on TV when people see the Kamisiya explosion, they see a big explosion but at a great distance. How many buildings again, please?

Riley: 100 bunkers and 40 warehouses.

Bell: The size, each, of a K-Mart.

Riley: Of a Wal-Mart, yes.

Bell: Wal-Mart.

Riley: And it is 10 square miles.

Bell: Oh, my God!

Riley: You’re not hearing that from the Pentagon.

Bell: And you’re saying there’s 29 Kamisiyas or were 29 Kamisiyas?

Riley: Approximately, yes. Now, the Department of Defense didn’t even tell you about Kamisiya until 1996 when they got forced into having to admit it to the American public. Now, they did not want you to know what was inside Kamisiya because I have the video of inside Kamisiya.

Bell: Inside Kamisiya. What’s in that video, Joyce?

Riley: That is the video that the troops themselves made, inventorying the bunker complex. They actually went from bunker to bunker, I don’t have all the bunkers in the video but, they went to several of the bunkers just recording what was inside that complex for purposes of knowing what countries they came from and what was in there. We went, not to the Department of Defense to get our information because, obviously, it’s been one lie after another, we went to the guy who was responsible for detonating it and his name is Dan Topolski. He is the NBC (that’s the Nuclear Biological and Chemical) NCO in charge and he is the one that is responsible for telling us what is really inside of Kamisiya. Now that is very important to understand that he says there were definitely chemical weapons inside of Kamisiya.

Bell: What about biological?

Riley: He says there were biological, also.

Bell: Uh huh. You know I wonder, Joyce, everybody in the world remembers Rodney King and that was sort of the beginning of things caught on video and, I think, every American can ask themselves and answer whether they think there would have been the Rodney King trial....whether there would have been all the charges brought......if that video has not
existed......Rodney King would have remained totally obscure. The only thing that blew all that up was the video of those cops, whether you agree with it or not, beating the crap out of Rodney King. That’s the only thing that kept that going....without that, nothing would have happened. Without video of Kamisiya I say it’s the same thing, nothing would have happened.

Riley: Absolutely and that’s exactly why this video made a difference. Now, inside, Art, when you see the video you can see the different types of munitions and shells inside...the canisters that were inside....but you can see chemical markings on these weapons. There is the damning part of it is it contained weapons that were from UK (Britain), that were from Russian, from China and from the United States.

Bell: A regular party.

Riley: That’s right. So, it’s very devastating to see, inside the enemy bunker, weapons from our own country. You can imagine how some of these troops felt when, for instance, they found shells on the ground during combat that had St. Louis on the shells.

Bell: Ya, that could be a little upsetting. I mean you’re there, your life is hanging by a thread, you walk in and you find your own weapons in the enemy’s cache.

Riley: Absolutely, how demoralizing that was. Now, we have some information, that has come from one of the vets, that says that Kamisiya is one of the reasons that they were going over to the Persian Gulf in the first place. In other words, this story to me.....and I have to say I can’t say whether or not this is accurate, I don’t know whether it’s true or not....but I can tell you that he says he was tasked with the job.....August of 1990....to go and detonate Kamisiya. He was told that that was their job....to detonate Kamisiya....and he had been preparing for that......they put on camos (sp)....in 1990, they were detonating Kamisiya.....that was his mission. Now, at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, if they knew....in 1990....that they were going over there with that purpose in mind, they had been told that we had enemy weapons in there.....we had weapons in enemy bunkers and Saudi Arabia was getting very nervous about it. So, we have the destruction of Kamisiya. Now here is the question of who is at fault. If we blew up Kamisiya and we knew there were chemical weapons inside, we did not protect our troops because, if you see the pictures of Kamisiya, the guys in front of Kamisiya, during the detonation, have no MOPP gear on......no protective gear on. If I have a gun and I give it to you and you go kill someone with it, who’s fault....who’s at fault? You are, you pulled the trigger.


Bell: Well, conventionally that is certainly true. Of late, actually they’re trying to, now, sue gun manufacturers, Joyce, so things have become a little convoluted.

Riley: That’s true. Maybe that’s not such a good example anymore but the issue is that we blew up weapons, knowing full well and this is the issue....this is the contention with the Department of Defense...because they are saying nobody knew what was inside that bunker complex.

Bell: Ya right.

Riley: It’s not true.

Bell: Well I remember when they exploded the first atomic bombs. They had G Is ordered to stand up no doubt so that they could figure out later what would happen to those G Is after being exposed to that immediate radiation with the burst of the bomb. Joyce, hold on. We’ll get to those recordings after the top of the hour.



Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 3

Bell: Back now to Joyce Riley, Joyce?

Riley: Yes. Let me say one thing. The Gulf War veterans that are listening for the first time....it is very difficult for them to hear this information.

Bell: What’s gonna come, ya.

Riley: Let me give a phone number just so that they have someplace to turn to.

Bell: Sure.

Riley: For Gulf War veterans, please call.....or anybody who wants to get this information. It’s free to Gulf War veterans but this is the number to call.....1-800-201-7892 ext 40. It’s free. The video is free to Gulf War veterans. We educate them as to what is going on. To the other people, we have to charge for it and we do need their help because it’s getting very, very difficult to do all this on my own. We don’t want to leave them hanging because it is so frightening to hear this information for the first time.

Bell: I know. What they’re about to hear is not going to be easy. Now, we had better get to it while we have the time so, I do want to get those tapes on and then we have more information we’ve got to get out. Folks, listen carefully to what you’re about to hear.
Riley: Okay. This is the first statement that General Schwartzkoff said regarding Kamisiya, January 29th of this year.

“I never received.....before, during or after hostilities....any report of Iraqi use of chemical weapons nor the discovery of or destruction of Iraqi chemical weapons.”

Well, he made a statement....a very broad statement..... of which we know is not correct because we have some of his own NBC logs and one of them that is dated 3 March of 1991, states that Lt. Col. Wade advised that Colonel Dunn has confirmed that a solider, of the 3rd Armored Division, does have blisters characteristic of Mustard chemical agents. That is General Schwartzkoff’s own Nuclear Biological Chemical log which he read every day. This next log is dated 27 February of ‘91 in which it says, “Commander’s guidance (commander being Schwartzkoff) for disposition of captured biological and chemical munitions”. It goes on to say, they feel destruction of small quantities....using field methods....is okay but bulk destruction is not approved because it may have great international implications. That has been declassified from a secret document dated 27 February of ‘91. The next statement.....this is Dan Topolski. Dan was the individual who was the Nuclear Biological and Chemical non-commissioned officer in charge that detonated Kamisiya....37th Engineer Battalion. Now, let me just tell you that recently they did a simulated detonation at Douglas Proving Grounds...or they were going to. Extra TV was invited, as well as most of the media were invited to go out to the simulated Kamisiya, at Douglas Proving Grounds, in Utah. Dan Topolski went as guest of Extra TV. When he got to the front door, he was told he was not allowed, the Pentagon was going to disallow him being there and he was escorted....by 4 people....back to his car and watched for 3 miles as he left. So, is they ever wanted us to believe that they were trying to get to the bottom of this, I think by not allowing any Gulf War veterans in there and only allowing the media, made it a sham. They were detonating only 9 shells that were supposed to be simulated. Like Dan said, the humidity was different....the temperature was different....everything was different....it was no where near what it was like in Iraq so it could not have been simulated. Now, this is Dan Topolski and his statement regarding what General Schwarzkoff just said about not knowing about the chemicals and the biologicals.

“General Schwartzkoff is lying! He knew, all the way through the air campaign, that they were getting positive readings and we were getting positive readings for nerve agents and blister agents and mustard agents on all of our detection devices: everything from the M8 alarm up to the Fox vehicles. I have Congressional testimony....I have my own personal knowledge and I also have copies of his own NBC logs from CENTCOM that he read every single day. He had knowledge of it all the way through.”

So, he completely contradicted what Schwartzkoff had to say and he was present at the time the detonation was made and inside of Kamisiya. Now this next statement is what Schwartzkoff says is when he found out about Kamisiya.

“As I stated, the first time ever I heard of Kamisiya, was in 1996 when it was first announced by the Department of Defense and nobody was more surprised than I was.”

Of course, his men have said, “How dare he say that!” He had to have known about that and listen to what he said about 30 minutes later, in his testimony.

“I remember General Franks came to me....and I assume it was Kamisiya he was talking about at the time, it was about the same time frame.....and talked about this huge ammunition dump that they had found with literally tons and tons and tons of ammunition in it....and there was no way they could possibly retrograde it and I challenged him on that and he convinced me that, ‘no, they couldn’t retrograde it’ and therefore they were going to destroy it in place and I said ‘fine’. Now, that’s Kamisiya.

Bell: Oh my God! So, I didn’t know about and then 30 minutes later, I did.

Riley: That’s right. That’s right.

Bell: Great! I mean this, look, to me General Schwartzkoff....until I talked to Joyce Riley.....General Schwartzkoff was an American hero.

Riley: (laughter) Yes, I understand.

Bell: Anyway, go ahead.

Riley: Thank you but, you know, this is the tragedy and the disillusion that the troops are going through right now.

Bell: Ya.

Riley: The next statement is going to be his own bodyguard. Kevin Wright is a young man who, I think, is an American hero as well as Dan Topolski because these two men have gone against the grain and have had to come forward and say some very uncomfortable things. I will tell you that both of them are ill. Both of them have families that are now ill. They all suffer from these problems. Kevin Wright is only 27 but he is incredibly sick at this time and he made the decision, after hearing Schwartzkoff’s testimony, to tell his side of the story regarding whether or not chemicals were used during the Gulf War. This is Kevin Wright United States Marine Corps retired:

“My name is Kevin Wright. I’m a Sergeant retired from the Marine Corps and I was attached to Central Command , Joint Visitors Bureau, in the areas of Saudi Arabia, Dhahran, Kuwait and Iraq. While I was over there I did see, in Dhahran, an airburst with a SCUD missile coming in....nothing touched it....and a cloud of odor came out and it was stated by a lot of people that it was a chemical attack. The chemical alarms went off....I was there. I took the pills....I took the shots...I signed my name on the dotted line to protect and guard this country and the interests of this country and now I’m sick. My wife and my daughter did not sign on the dotted line to deploy anywhere, I did, and now my family is affected....my life is affected. I can’t work. I’m in pain everyday of my life and over there I seen it....I heard it.....and it happened and I can’t understand......My question is why, General Schwartzkoff, would you sit there and say that your main priority is the welfare of your troops and your troops are sick.....we’re very sick....and you’re gonna sit there and not stand up and help us? I thought of you as a gentlemen. I cannot think of you more than anything but a traitor for doing this and not speaking out to help your people. General Schwartzkoff, I was your bodyguard, my job was to protect you and I’m sick and why can’t you protect us? It’s not right and you know it. What I think ought to be done right now is that President Bush, General Powell, General Schwartzkoff, I signed the dotted line....we all did....don’t lie to the American people. Speak out the truth....speak it out, now! It’s been too long.”

You know, that is heartbreaking. It is so heartbreaking to have to hear that.

Bell: Yes, it is. Yes, it is and Joyce, it is so heartbreaking and it is so upsetting that I almost don’t know how to react to it but I do still know, through my own anger and frustration and cynicism, that the way to react to it is not to light the fuse on a bomb that is gonna kill innocent people. That’s the end of us if that’s what it comes to, Joyce.


Riley: You’re absolutely right. Let me tell you....because of your program being heard in Anchorage and Fairbanks.....Alaska has decided to take some very significant steps. I just want to brag on you and what your program has done up there because I was recently in Fairbanks and in Anchorage as a guest of Ralph Winterudd who cares about the veterans....cared enough to bring me up there to talk about this subject and most everybody in the audience listens to your program. This is what they’re gonna do, and I just want to say this from the standpoint of what we can do pragmatically, they are going to have a program June 28th.....they’re going to invite the governor....they’re going to invite the senators....their representatives....they’re going to invite all the dignitaries of the town. They are going to have me, again, present the evidence to them and they are going to hold them fully accountable for knowing this information. So, they are inviting Dan Topolski up, also, to tell his side of the story as well as Dr. Larry Goth who is a physician who now has the disease.

Bell: Good.

Riley: I just want to give a phone number in Alaska. You can get ahold of if you’re a vet...the number is 907-269-7070. They need your support up there and Alaska is going to take the lead in this.

Bell: Well, Alaskans are very independent people. They’re not cheap. I lived there....I know Alaskans.

Riley: Other states can do the same thing. We’ll help them because this is what we’re going to have to do is confront them with the evidence that we have and the way to do it is to get the materials and understand the facts behind this. You can’t go forward and talk about something as serious as this without knowing what the facts are.

Bell: You’re absolutely correct and, if we want to hold on to the country that we have....flawed as it may be along with a government that is flawed.....we’ve got to react in the way that you’re talking about now with bombs and bullets because if we do that it’s all over.....we’ve lost everything. Joyce, hold on . When we get back we’ve going to give you some information that, as of this date, you’ve not heard regarding, Joyce, what’s going on in this country.....experimentation on the American people. Joyce, is that right?

Riley: That’s it.



Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 4

Bell: Now, back to Joyce Riley. Joyce, you have new information for us, don’t you?

Riley: Yes, we do. There’s a couple of things. First let me begin by saying that there is a document that came into my hands and it was shocking to me. It’s 300 pages of evidence that the United States Government experimented on the unwitting American public and by that I mean.....those who did not give consent.....who did not want to be experimented upon....and it’s titled..... ‘BIOLOGICAL TESTING INVOLVING HUMAN SUBJECTS BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE’ dated 1977. In here, we see a lot of the experiments that we had heard about.....kind of rumored about.....happening and I actually got verification of it. We’re going to make it available to everyone because I want to get it out. You can no longer get this document, as far as I know. This one was obtained, or procured, if you will, and I must say to you that this will shock you beyond belief. I am going to give you just a basic overview of this document.

Bell: Alright, please do.

Riley: 300 pages stating that the United States Government experimented upon it’s own people from the years 1945 through 1970. That these test were done without our knowledge. Just a couple of statements from the documents says that they had inappropriately given up responsibility for assuring that these subjects were protected. We have learned, for the first time, the extent of the Department of Defense activities in biological welfare on the witting and unwitting subjects of that program. Recent revelations about open air testing , in civilian areas, have alarmed many people. Now, I like the way they put this and this is Senator Ed Kennedy, who is chairing this committee, “Should a Democratic people cede, to it’s government, the full responsibility of determining when secret tests on unwitting subjects are necessary to protect the nation’s security?” Well, what they did was test it on you and I and I’ll give you some examples of these.

Bell: Please do.

Riley: Places like the New York subway system....that was in the 1950s.

Bell: The New York subway system?

Riley: That’s correct. They released infected organisms into the subway system. They released them into the Tuscarora Tunnel in Mechanicsburg and Kittakinny, Pennsylvania and along the Pennsylvania Turnpike on Highway 16.

Bell: What!

Riley: This document is so explicit, Art, that if everybody doesn’t rise to their feet and say, “I’m sorry, US Government, it’s done....you don’t use us as your human guinea pigs any longer.

Bell: Joyce, let’s back up. What the hell did they release into the New York subway system?

Riley: They release something called bacillus subtilus.....bacillus globagee, which is supposed to be an inert organism. Now, I don’t have reason to be believe that it is a very pathologic....I don’t have reason to believe that pathologic.....I do believe that it is one of the more inert However, this whole thing came about because they were using something called serratia marsessons....which is, if you are a medical person....you know that that causes respiratory infections and urinary tract infections. Serratia marsessons was being tested on the public in a number of different areas and I only have the unclassified documents which have been declassified. There is still a section, that is classified, I don’t have but in this there is enough to know that we’re in trouble. How many of our diseases may be due to the fact that they did experiments on the American people for the past 40 years and they openly admit that they had no idea that serratia marsessons was damaging. Another experiment they did was in San Francisco in which they put serratia marsessons in the water. They placed it.......aerosolized it into the ocean.....

Bell: What!

Riley: .......off San Francisco....then followed it to see how far inland it would go....how many people would become ill....

Bell: What!

Riley: ......how far it would travel, yes and it travel 50 miles.

Bell: Explain to me, again, say it again....ceracesha marsennson...say it again.

Riley: S-e-r-r-i-t-i-a marsessons.

Bell: M-a-r, what?

Riley. It is a biological agent that cause urinary tract infections and upper respiratory infections.

Bell: And so they aerosol sprayed this off the coast of San Francisco.

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: To see how far it would go and how many people would get sick.

Riley: That’s correct. This was all done under the name of science and under the name of a defensive biological warfare program. All of this was done without our knowledge; it was done by contractors and by the DOD.

Bell: Contractors! Contractors!

Riley: Yes, by contractors for the government.....private contractors. So, in other words, if you probably paid out enough money you could do an experiment on the American people. You know we’ve been talking about this Title 50....

Bell: This makes......ya, I know we have.....this makes Tuskegee look like kindergarten. I mean, at least with regard to Tuskegee, as far as I know, there was no intentional infection. They detected an area of the country where black men....particularly.....had terrible high rates of infection....and there is no way to condone and what they did was horrible.....allowing it to go to term just to see what the hell would happen to these men.

Riley: Oh it’s worse than that, Art. It’s worse than that.

Bell: But my God, Joyce, to set out to intentionally spread disease just to see what’s gonna happen in the civilian population!

Riley: That’s correct. To induce illness. Now, let me just go back to Tuskegee. This is very important because there was an AP story, on February 21st, that said, and I quote them ...I do not quote myself.....this is the AP story:

“The Government withheld treatment from 399 black men with syphilis so they could study how it spreads”

Bell: Right.

Riley: Spreads.

Bell: Spreads, oh that is an important phrase, isn’t it?

Riley: That’s right because there were 6,000 people ended up being involved in this because, when President Clinton went before the American people and glad handed the remaining individuals alive from this experiment.....

Bell: About 8 of them, I think.

Riley: That’s correct. They didn’t tell you about all the wives that they gave syphilis to.

Bell: You know I never thought about that. My God! You mean....that’s right, of course. They wouldn’t have been informed so part of this study would have been the spread.......Oh God!

Riley: The spread of the disease. Why do you think it’s so prevalent down there in the South? Why do you think there’s so much syphilis in Mississippi and Alabama? Well, they did not include the spouses.....the girlfriends that got the disease....nor did they include all the deformed children that were born. Now, I would submit to you, Art, that if we live in a country where the Government allows one person to suffer like this.....be they black, white, red....it crosses all boundaries....we have lost the freedom that the Declaration of Independence....the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is supposed to provide for us. What I am saying is that, by the way, this test....the Tuskegee Experiment ....was done at the Tuskegee VA. I believe that the same type of test is going on right now with the Gulf War veterans. They are not being treated. They have admitted to me, at the Houston VA, that they are not treating Gulf War veterans.

Bell: So, you think Tuskegee II is under way right now.

Riley: I believe it with all my heart, absolutely! Now, the fact that we could have a Tuskegee Experiment.....and when Clinton came before the American public and apologized on behalf of the American people....which you and I didn’t do it.....did you see that there was an incredible lack of any accountability for the doctor that did this....for the nurses and all the individuals that were responsible for that experiment. No one was held accountable. That is murder....that is genocide in my opinion.

Bell. Ya, there was a movie and I’m sorry I can’t think of the title right now, about one of the nurses....

Riley: Miss Eversboy.

Bell: That was it, thank you. I just saw that, here, recently and I guess you’ve seen it, right?

Riley: Correct.

Bell: She was portrayed in a very interesting way and I wonder, Joyce, how you came away from that movie?

Riley: I was so angry! I was so angry that they would almost idolize her in what she had done. They made it not what it really is, which is genocide. They didn’t tell you the entire story because you didn’t see the deformed children....you didn’t see the result of this experiment.

Bell: Ya.

Riley: It was done for the greater good, they said. Well you know, that’s what Hitler said, also. That’s what Mengele said, also, and I think we have to be very careful when we start looking at this kind of incident occurring in this country. Now, I would say that Tuskegee is just one of many. In fact, in front of me I have a 1977 newspaper article in which it states, ‘the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in experiments that they conducted under the code name MK ULTRA. In 80 institutions in this country....without our knowledge....hospitals, colleges, research facilities.....nobody was every told. No one was ever told that they were involved in MK ULTRA. Now, in this document that I have, it mentions MK NAOMI. For the first time, I have been able to get some unclassified documents regarding....they have been declassified....regarding MK NAOMI and I want everyone to know that we are making it available because I want everyone to see....once and for all....I am not a conspiracy theorist.....I am not dreaming this up....but these things are going on right beneath our very own noses. We need to take responsibility for what’s happening in our country.

Bell: What is....I know what MK ULTRA was. I don’t know what MK NAOMI was.

Riley: Okay. Just let me say that MK ULTRA was the use of mind altering drugs.

Bell: Yes.

Riley: MK NAOMI is the use of biological agents on the unwitting public.


Bell: Aaaaaahhhhh, great. Great, so here were are. Now let me......I want you to address a criticism, Joyce. After I had you on the last time, shock waves rippled across the country. There were reactions on other talk shows, syndicated talk programs. I make it a practice to not take shots at other talk show hosts and this is not what I’m doing right now. I’m simply repeating what occurred. People called the Michael Reagan Show, as an example, with reference to your discussion of US TITLE CODE 50 and Michael Reagan said it was all a bunch of ‘bunk’. Michael Reagan said it was all a bunch of baloney.....that there was nothing to US TITLE CODE 50....and you had to read it more carefully and, if you did, you would realize that there was nothing to it at all. That was what Michael Reagan said so I would like you to respond to that. Tell people what US TITLE CODE 50 is and respond to that kind of criticism.

Riley: Well, TITLE 50 allows.....it’s TITLE 50, chapter 32, section 1520...allows the US Government, the Department of Defense or their contractor to experiment with chemical and biological agents on the American Public. It calls for only the notification of a civilian authority, not defined.....I always say it could be the dog catcher.....


Bell: Yup.

Riley: It gives 30 days notice that they are going to begin the experiment. There are not questions asked....you don’t get permission.....they don’t have to require anything from you. They simply tell you that the experiment is going to begin....or that one person and I think that 30 days notice is so that he can have time to get out of town. This experiment can go on. Yes, it is codified into law. The very fact that they have been doing these experiments, now, that we can show for the past 40 years, Michael Reagan, you ought to understand.....it’s already been done. Now, they have legalized it since 1986....

Bell: A very good point, Joyce. In other words you’re saying, listen Michael, poo poo it if you want but you better look at the fact that our subways have been sprayed.....our large cities have been sprayed.....it’s already been done. So, how can you possibly say there is nothing to this when evidence exists that they have been......oh God.....I don’t know what the word for it is......poisoning us.

Riley: Absolutely, absolutely! What I am saying right now is why do we have 6 million fibra myalgia sufferers and I have been quoted 18 million chronic fatigue sufferers and why do we have all these diseases that are suddenly becoming epidemics almost? Why are we being told that these things are headed our way and there’s going to be no cure for it......viral plagues.....hemorrhagic plagues. How much of this did we initiate ourselves because in this document.....and I do encourage everybody to get a copy of this.....in here it talks about the fact that they essentially weaponized mosquitoes. They did it, the Government.

Bell: Excuse me, mosquitoes?

Riley: That’s correct. The infected mosquitoes with viral agents. Now, we’re talking about making a whole group of people ill, possibly. That’s what is stated in here, that they were the ones that actually put these infections....or some of these infections....into mosquitoes. We have to wonder, when you send biological agents 50 miles into San Francisco....when you did some of these tests that it talks about in Alabama....and, by the way, they tracked the cases of upper respiratory infections and pneumonia in Alabama during the time they did the test.....it triple during the year they did the experiment.....it tripled on those people. Now, that’s fine. Maybe you and I can get pneumonia and get over it but what about the really sick...the infirm....the generic....

Bell: Compromised immune systems.

Riley: That’s right, exactly.

Bell: Those people die.

Riley: That’s right and, in here, it discusses that some of them died but it’s almost as if....of well...it was for the greater good. So, I want everybody to get this document so you can see that Art Bell and I are not making this stuff up and please order it at 1-800-201-7892 ext 40. I want to tell you, you won’t believe what MK NAOMI did. MK NAOMI was an assassination project and it talks about the systems that were used to assassinate individuals.

Bell: Individuals?

Riley: That’s correct. It even mentions some of the names, in here.
Bell: It does?

Riley: Yes. They had used something called a shellfish toxin on the edge of a dart so that it could be shot into the person and, by the way it says declassified, shot into a person and it would look as if it was an insect bite. They also talk about a cyanide pill they had and an 80 drill bit.....the smallest made....with a shellfish toxin. They had attache cases rigged to disseminate an agent into the air.....cigarette lighters that would disseminate biological agents into the air and guess who were the primary purchasers of all of this stuff? It was our special operations forces.....the Army’s special ops people. The division was apparently responsible for developing special applications for biological agents and toxins. The customer appears to be US Army Special Forces. This thing is chock full of information. If you can imagine 300 pages that tell everything....not everything, this is only the declassified information....but it’s really, really frightening to see what’s been going on and we haven’t been aware of it.

Bell: Can you use some of what’s in that document to pursue other documents under the Freedom of Information Act?

Riley. There is only a couple but, yes, I can. We’re going to be getting more and more of these and I need to give credit to a lady, who is a housewife, that has been doing a lot of this research...Sally Medley is her name. This lady is housewife turned investigator and, if you think one person can’t make a difference, I’m telling you we’re going to tell the world about this and let American know what’s been going on because our very health is at stake.

Bell: Well, maybe somebody could get a copy and shoot it off to Michael Reagan. Listen, if you would, hold on. What I want to do is begin to take some phone calls and learn more about operation MK NAOMI. That sounds so innocent Naomi. Anyway, Joyce Riley is my guest, how are you all holding up?

Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 5

Bell: Back now to Joyce Riley. Joyce, I’m going to read a fax to you. “Art, 3rd Armored Division....518th Infantry.....Gulf War vet....thank you for covering Gulf War birth defects. I served as a dismounted team leader during the Gulf, clearing bunkers. My wife and I just lost our unborn baby due to chromosomal abnormalities. It was very painful, however, what hurts now is that she wants to try again but I’m afraid. I don’t feel sick but I don’t want to put my wife through the loss again. I know we were in contact with chemicals. I’ve got pictures taken while blowing up ammunition rounds, bulk explosive tied around stacked bombs, also SCUD missiles, some type of powder on the sand and repellent. Strangely, our whole unit was deactivated immediately upon arrival in Europe, after the war. The Army has lost all the medical records relating to me and has never asked about my health. Thank you, Art, you’re a hero along with your guest. Please, if you want answers, make the government publish research results of units....not random cases....this should include abortions.” Signed, Todd. Todd probably ought to get hold of you, shouldn’t he?

Riley: Absolutely, any Gulf War veteran. There’s a direct line for Gulf War Veterans, that’s 281-587-5437. We have a lot of people out there that have a lot of questions and they’re not being answered by the Department of Defense, that’s for sure. Art, there is one particular problem I want to mention with the vets right now is that many of them are suicidal. They are so sick.....they are in so much pain and unlike Todd who is not sick, thank God, they are quite ill. They want to give up. They feel as though their country has betrayed them and I want every veteran out there to know one thing.....your country didn’t betray you. Some very bad people within this government are withholding information but America does care and you’re going to know that America’s going to care. The problem, also, is that I would say a majority of our Gulf War veterans have been placed on Prozac or Welbutin or Trizadone, which are psychotropic drugs. You see, you can’t have the Gulf War illness....it doesn’t exist according to the Pentagon....so the VA is placing our veterans on psychotropic drugs....huge numbers and Eli Lilly is probably the biggest benefactor from the Gulf War in the making of Prozac. They’re being placed on Prozac and you know what Prozac does....the tendencies that they increase and that’s violence and that’s been documented. We have Gulf War veterans that are committing horrific, violent crimes right now, and just because of what we’ve been talking about tonight, really frightens me. I want Gulf War veterans to know that someone does know.....you’re not mentally ill....we didn’t send 600,000 head cases into the Persian Gulf like the VA wants you to
believe. These guys are sick and they’re desperate. I have letters right now from 10 Gulf War veterans that have done horrific murders that don’t remember doing it....don’t know why they did it....but they’re serving life sentences and death sentences. We’ve got to get the Pentagon to address this issue. They’re not talking about the violence increase, now, in the military. They want you to think that they only problem is that people are running around pinching each other on the backside and having sexual harassment claims.

Bell: I know

Riley: The real issue is these guys are dying and, by the way, I have a document here that shows, and it says , and I quote, “The Reigle Report of 1993 says that our men....many of them have died since returning from the Gulf.” That’s dated September 9th of 1993. They know that they have died. They know there’s an illness but the are continuing this facade at the VA facilities and allowing these men to suffer and die. I want everyone to get the documents that we have.....please....there is no copyright on them. Get them out because that is the only way we’re gonna tell America the truth.

Bell: Alright, and the truth also seems to include.....most people know about MK ULTRA....the psychedelics....the unwitting victims of the psychedelics that were given to our troops so we could know what happens....but this PROJECT MK NAOMI....this is the first time I have ever heard of anything of this sort. You’re really sure of what you’re saying, Joyce?

Riley: Yes. This is the first opportunity I’ve ever had to be able to get actual government documents regarding MK NAOMI....they’re very hard to get. Let me read you one sentence. “The experience,” and we’re talking about the Special Operations Department of the CIA doing this ‘experience’ or doing this project, “this experience included the development of 2 different types of agent suicide pills to be used in extremis and a successful operation using biological warfare materials against a Nazi leader, Homar Schott, so as to prevent his appearance at a major economic conference during the war.” It actually said, in the document, who was murdered. They used something called staph neurotoxin, which is a food poisoning, and it was administered to Homar Schott to prevent his appearance at an economic conference.

Bell: Well, that’s one thing....awful enough....but my God, Joyce, what did they do. They concoct something....stir something horrible up and give it to some guy to take down to the New York subway?

Riley: Well, that’s what is scary about this because I also have some documents and invoices here that we’ve obtained from some of the biological and chemical companies in the United States. Some of these are, by the way, defendants in that multibillion dollar lawsuit the Gulf War veterans have filed....and in it, it shows the transfer of biological agents and guess how they’re transferred. How do you think they’re doing this transfer?

Bell: I don’t know if I want to know. How?

Riley: Federal Express.

Bell: Federal Express, well it figures. Federal Express, they don’t know what they’re carrying. You know, somebody hands them a package, right?

Riley: And so it’s a biological agent....they drop it....they lose it.....they deliver it to the wrong person, whatever.

Bell: That’s good.

Riley: America needs to understand because we’re entering a new crisis, right now. The government is setting us up for the use of biological terrorism.

Bell: It should be said , I suppose, that I wouldn’t say that Federal Express is knowingly involved. I mean hell, you hand these poor people a package....they do their job......they deliver the package, maybe.... to the right place, maybe. Or UPS or any other organization like that. I mean, they deliver packages, that’s what they do.

Riley: Correct and I’m not specifically pointing them out other than the invoices in this log happen to have Federal Express as the transfer agent for them.

Bell: That’s just great.

Riley: I just think we need to understand biological agents are out there. It’s not as if these are all in some laboratory in Ft. Dietrich, Maryland, under lock and key all the time. They’re in
hospitals....they’re in communities....they’re all over the place....they’re at Sea World....they’re everyplace. So, I think we’re going to have a coming threat because of biological warfare but it’s not going to be because some wide eyed radical gets ahold of it. I think we have, already, the problem of biological agents that are being spread.....a disease that is being created....and that they are now utilizing these, in testing, within the American public and that’s my concern.

Bell: Alright, alright, I want to go to the phones if you don’t mind. A lot of people want to talk to you. First time called line you are on the air with Joyce Riley. Hello:

Caller: Hello.

Bell: Where are you?

Caller: I’m calling from Puyallup, Washington.

Bell: Alright.

Caller: My name is W. Theory and Joyce knows me rather well. I‘ve talked to Joyce many times and my question is....I’ve been studying a lot of this.....and I served with the First Marine Division and I am sick to the point where I can’t work and trying to draw Social Security, a pension and what not through the VA and getting no help at all. Finally they put me on Doxycycline because of blisters. I know that what we went through, in the First Marine Division, with different chemical exposure and also possible biological which is not possible anymore..... it is biological. I had respiratory failure 3 nights ago and was in the hospital and thought I was dying. My words to the people out there, Gulf War veterans and Americans, that we can’t give up and what Joyce Riley is doing is for us and it’s for you. It’s not just an inner-service problem not, it’s an American problem.

Bell: Ya.

Caller: A country problem, not just the United States but 26 other.....24 other countries and we need to back Joyce Riley for helping us and I commend you, Joyce.

Riley: Thank you, Will.

Caller: You know me pretty well and with Northwest Veterans we’re getting the word out....getting your tapes and all your stuff out.

Bell: Well, that is an important point. Joyce, 26 other countries, he said. Surely, if as you say, this horrible whatever it is, is coming back home, then it’s coming home not just to American because America was not, by far, the only country involved in the Gulf War so it would have to elsewhere, wouldn’t it?

Riley: That’s correct. I just received a call yesterday from the Dutch Army. They are very sick. They are very angry and guess what they’re being told, ‘It’s all in their head’ and they’re being placed on psychotropic drugs, also. This is an international problem and it’s an international solution that they have used which is designating it as a mental illness. So, you’re right. 26 out of 27 coalition countries now report sick and dying Gulf War veterans. Those countries....we have been in contact with some of them and, for instance, the Dutch Army....this person sent me a letter....an air traffic controller sent me a letter of all 18 symptoms and they’re identical to the ones our Gulf War veterans are having....identical! Now, the caller that just called in, Will, is a real hero. He is very, very, sick. He’s much sicker than he sounds on the phone and God bless him because, I’ll tell you, he has a real battle going against him. He is only 27 years old. He’s one of the heroes that served this country, and there’s thousands of them out here, and I know we’re talking to them tonight. I don’t know if you know it but the last time we were on a psychiatric unit at a VA hospital were cheering wildly all night long because they were, 50 of them, labeled as psychiatric problems in a psychiatric unit and they were so ecstatic that the social worker called me the next day and said. ‘You kept them up all night long.’ They’ve got to find out that somebody knows they’re not crazy. They have a disease, it needs to be treated.

Bell: Alright, Wild Card line you are on the air with Joyce Riley, who I think is in Houston. You are, right?

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: You’re on the air, Hi.

Caller: This is Jay from North California.

Bell: Yes, Jay.

Caller: Joyce, thank you....God bless you for the efforts you are doing. I’m a Gulf War veteran, as well, I served with the First Cavalry. Spent much of my time up towards the neutral zone and I can confirm much of what she says, tonight, in regards to the reports of chemical weapons that were transferred from United States or Allied areas and ended up in enemy hands. We also confiscated protective gear that was manufactured in the United States and the manufactured date was actually after the start of the ground offense.

Bell: Oh, my God!

Riley: Oh, my word, that’s incredible.

Bell: Sir, wait, wait. Do you have evidence of this?

Caller: Well, I did keep a journal through the whole thing. I kept a journal. I did keep it in such a way that I didn’t have confidential information in it but I do have information, in that sense, that does say that we did confiscate protective gear and I did note that the manufacture dates were after the ground offensive, yes.

Riley: I do need to hear from you. I hope you’ll call me.

Caller: Yes ma’am, I will. I have your number.

Riley: Okay.

Caller: I would also like to give a number. I’m involved with the Native Americans Veterans Society and their mission is to do the same thing you’re doing, Joyce.

Riley: Wonderful. I need to talk to you about that, also.

Caller: If I could give the number....

Bell: No, I can’t let you give a number on the air, sir, without checking it out.

Caller: No problem.

Bell: You check it out with me and I’ll get the number out. In the meantime, you be sure and contact Joyce Riley, alright?

Caller: I also....I wrote you a letter....I don’t know it you were able to read it.....it was concerning PB pills.

Bell: Yes, I have it.

Caller: I did serve as an NBC specialist in a line unit in the 11th ACR, in Germany, for 6 months and I did find some information about PB pills that I don’t think most people know.

Bell: You have already told us a lot of things that most people don’t know.

Riley: Please give me a call.

Bell: Please give Joyce Riley a call. Joyce, quick, your number?

Riley: 281-587-5437.

Bell: Alright, hold on, we’re at the bottom of the hour. We will repeat that number.



Joyce Riley on Art Bell June 3, 1997

Part 6

Bell: Alright, here we go. I have made it a point, in my career as a talk show host, not to take off after other talk show hosts. You know, not take pot shots at other talk show hosts. I have better things to do and if they want to take pot shots at me that’s fine, however, when it is an issue and not a pot shot, then it is a different affair and what you’re about to hear is issue oriented. I want you to remember that as you hear it. I had Joyce on, whenever the last time was, I don’t know it’s been weeks or months, and US TITLE CODE 50 was an issue. As a matter of fact, we posted US TITLE CODE 50 up on the website. I think we had a link to Cornell Universitybecause it was so.......You know, here’s something suggesting that the US government has the ability to experiment on the American people.......American people......civilians.....with 30 days notification to civilian authorities, unnamed. I thought that was extremely provocative and I didn’t believe it myself until I read it so Keith quickly got a link up to Cornell University and I’ll be damned if it didn’t read exactly like that. Well, in succeeding days, ripples went out across the country, as I explained earlier, and Michael Reagan.......because I heard it myself.....you know, I listen to talk radio......Michael Reagan poo pooed the whole thing. In fact, I heard him screaming at some callers saying that, ‘It’s not what you think it is. TITLE CODE 50- is a bunch of baloney. What Art Bell said and what Joyce Riley said is a bunch of baloney. Read the whole thing, get it in context. They’re not telling you the truth.’ That’s what Michael Reagan said, I heard him say it on the air, myself, alright, this is not coming to me second hand. During this last break, I just went on the line and I asked Joyce.....because I sprang that on her....I said, ‘Joyce, have you heard separately.....aside from what I just told you Michael Reagan had said regarding your comments on US TITLE CODE 50’.....and she said, ‘oh, yes, and there’s more.’ I want her, now to tell you exactly what occurred between her and Michael Reagan. Michael Reagan contacted you, Joyce?

Riley: I was with him at the National Association of Radio Talk Show Hosts Convention, in Houston and I was there, present there.

Bell: Right.

Riley: I handed him a news release that said, “Biological Weapons Used in the Persian Gulf, the Disease is Communicable.”

Bell: Right.

Riley: I handed that to him and we were having our picture taken and I simply said “Our troops are not just sick, they are dying , Michael, and I need to get this word out. I need American to know about this.”

He said, “That’s horrendous! You mean it’s a communicable disease?”

and I said, “Yes.”

“You mean these men are really sick? This is really that bad?”

I said, “Yes, it is.”

He said, “I want to have this on my show.”

I said, “Certainly, no problem.”

He said, “Will you be on my show?”

And I said, “Yes.”

Riley: So, his producer called me the next day and asked me to fax the hard copies of the documents supporting what I said.

Bell: In other words, Michael Reagan wanted proof what you were saying was really true before he was gonna put you on the air.

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: Okay, so you faxed documents?

Riley: That’s correct. I faxed about 30 pages to him, to wit they were very comfortable with the information, and his producer called me back to schedule a time and asked me, “I just have one question for you. How far back does this trading with Saddam Hussein go?”

Bell: Yes.

Riley: “And the showing of biological weapons?”

And I said “1982”

And she said, “ Well, I guess you know we can’t have you on the show since it goes into the Reagan Administration.”

I was shocked and I said, “But the issue is so much more important than who was in power at the time. The issue is, we’ve got sick Gulf War Veterans.”

Riley: Well, subsequent to that time, of course, I have not been invited on that show however, he did recently have on a man named Michael Fimento. Michael Fimento has written an article or REASON magazine and the American Spectator called, ‘The Gulf Lore Syndrome,’ saying the disease is not real....this is all hysteria......and this is a big joke by the media......played on the Gulf War veterans.

Bell: Oh my God!

Riley: That these men are not sick and if they would just get a life and a psychiatrist they would understand that they have a mental problem and not an illness.

Bell: And Michael Reagan had that person on?

Riley: Yes, he did.

Bell: And Michael Reagan told.....Michael Reagan’s producer told you they would not have you on the moment they discovered that it went back to the Reagan Administration days?

Riley: Absolutely correct, that’s correct. Now the interesting thing is, and I quote a book called The Killing Wind, “Since the Reagon Administration took office in 1980, budgets for both biological and chemical weapons skyrocketed.” Now, understand they were illegal at that time, in 1969, so that in 1980 we shouldn’t have been doing this. Our budget, in 1969, for biological and chemical weapons was 19.4 million. When Reagan was in power, in 1987, our defense warfare budget was 71.2 million dollars, that was for a so-called defensive program. So, I think the issue is that we did the majority of our buildup and trading with all of these unstable Third Word countries at this time, and I think that’s the issue. My statement to Mr. Reagan is, I respect you.....I respect your program.....I have with him, personally, other than.....it’s about time we get past the issue of who did what to whom.....and treat these Gulf War veterans. They’re dying.....they’re sick......they’re having deformed children.....all the while being told they have a mental problem. We have got to forget everything else and realize this is a national military genocide and I don’t know how much more plainly to say it.

Bell: Alright. West of the Rockies you’re on the air with Joyce Riley. Hello.

Caller: Hi, Art, this is Trudy in Northern California. You have my favorite subject on the air tonight. Thank you, Joyce, for being on the air. I want to tell you that I helped produce a show, on community supported radio here in Northern California, regarding veteran’s issues. It’s on Saturday night for 2 1/2 hours and I would like to get to talk to you about maybe appearing on that show because it’s like Saturday night at 5 o’clock in the afternoon.

Riley: Certainly.

Bell: How do people contact you, Joyce, regarding appearances?

Riley: Okay, they’ll have to call this number, 281-587-5437 and I do not charge anything. I do not charge anything. I want to make sure everybody understands this is not a financial issue with me. I do not charge anything for speaking engagements, or whatever, but we do have to charge for the materials that we put out because it is overwhelmingly expensive but it’s free to Gulf War veterans. The video and the documents are free to Gulf War veterans.

Caller: That’s great. Just this evening, just before your show was on, I just finished recording, reading an article in Nation magazine that was published last week, May 26, on Pentagon poison.....the great radioactive ammo coverup so the Gulf War veterans have not only everything else that you’re talking about tonight but also, because the our government started using depleted uranium laced ammunition in that war, that they had never done before. When Gulf service people were getting hit by ‘friendly fire’, plus all of the tanks that were hit by this depleted uranium.....uranium 238 loaded ammunition.....now they have all of the radioactive problems, as well.

Riley: You’re absolutely right! There is so much that we haven’t even touched on. The DU issue, the depleted uranium issue is a very real one, very serious.....there’s so much and I thank you so much.

Bell: Alright. East of the Rockies you’re on the air with Joyce Riley. Good morning.

Caller: Hi, Joyce, this is Rob.

Riley: Hi there, Rob.

Caller: I sent you a check tonight, I hope it got there alright.

Riley: Thank you that’s very kind of you.

Caller: Listen, I just got a quick question and then I want to talk about the funding. I think this is an absolutely bogus study....quote....unquote....that the government has put out on the Gulf War....military hospital....

Bell: Even CNN seemed to indicate they thought so, too.

Caller: Well, let me throw one more equation that’s not figured in there. Joyce, what percentage of Gulf War veterans have separated from the military and how badly might that skew this study?

Riley: Well, that’s a very good point. 90% of the Gulf War veterans, over 90% according to Senator Welston’s office, over 90% have already been released from the military. So, they are not using any reservists not..... using any guardsmen....and not using those that have been discharged. There is only remaining 10% of the military that served in Desert Storm. They’re called the Dinosaurs now and many of them are quite ill so, you’re right about that, it does skew the study even more.


Caller: Okay. The other thing is about the funding. I was in a meeting tonight where some very paltry amount was raised to support Gulf War veterans and Art said something earlier, that was very profound, about the King case. That being that, without a video we would never have know what happened and I just wonder if everybody realizes that without supporting the Gulf War Veteran’s Association financially, we are going to lose our video onto issues like testing on the general public and the TITLE 50 and the actual footage inside Kamisiyah because without Gulf War veterans these things would never have been brought to bear and these things would not have been admitted.

Bell: That’s for sure.

Riley: You’re right and I thank you for that. We do need donations. We do need help because this is getting so expensive. We want to help the Gulf War vets. We even have a medical fund that is just for nothing but money for them for treatment and we do need help. I hate to have to ask this because I’ve never had to before but we really do need help to do this and I thank you very much for what you’ve said.

Bell: Alright. Wild card line you’re on the air with Joyce Riley in Houston, hello.

Caller: Hi. I have several comments, I’ll try to be quick. That 1977 document about biological testing on human subjects by the DOD?

Bell: Yes.

Caller: I was able to get that last summer from Washington University in St. Louis so I just wanted to confirm that that was at that university last summer.

Bell: You’ve read that?

Caller: I haven’t read the entire thing to tell you the truth. I read some of it and it is pretty depressing and I just stopped after awhile. Regarding the mosquitoes she was talking about, on the front page of our St. Louis Post Dispatch, they are warning us that we are going to be having mosquitoes from Asia and that they can carry diseases such as....I believe it said meningitis and other diseases.....so they’r getting us ready for that. I also wanted to mention that, on our news here.....I believe it was ABC.....a couple of weeks ago they actually said on the evening news that in the Tuskegee Study the men had been injected with syphillis. They showed an arm, like somebody receiving an injection and another thing, that Extra Program that Joyce was on, that was very good but there was one mistake. They said that the French were the only coalition troops that aren’t sick....which was true....however they said that the French were vaccinated against biological and chemical warfare....that was a mistake.

Bell: That was a mistake, actually. They were the ones that did not vaccinate, isn’t that right, Joyce?

Joyce: That’s correct.

Caller: And they also took Doxycycline every day, during the war.

Bell: That’s right.

Caller: And one other thing, Joyce was talking about Eli Lilly....

Bell: Yes.

Caller: Apparently there’s just been a book written entitled, ‘Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: An Integrative Approach To Evaluation and Treatment’ edited by Dr. Mark Dimitrich, a psychiatrist at Eli Lilly. The book is basicly saying that chronic fatigue syndrome patients need to exercise and they’ll be fine. In reality, the more people ‘push’ with that disease they get worse and worse and this doctor is going to be presenting this type of information on a video conference that’s going to be shown at hospitals, universities, community colleges, and even sports bars on September 18th. Dr. Garth Nicholson faxed me, I got a fax from him quite a while back, they said they are finding the mycoplasma that they are finding in 45% of the veterans in 30% of the CFS patients who have no relationship to the Gulf War. Also, people might want to read a book, it’s ‘Aussler’s Web’, it’s all about the chronic fatigue epidemic that began 10 years ago and there was an independent researcher who was finding fragments of a retrovirus, which HIV is a retrovirus, in CFS patients. This researcher got very sick. This researcher also got into a terrible car accident and he had to stop the research.

Bell: Alright, we’ve got to hold it there. Timewise, we don’t have a lot of time but, yes, we’ve heard this before. Joyce, another thing I want to bring up with you, I just read a newspaper article yesterday that confirmed some of what Dr. Horowitz....I’m sure you know Dr. Horowitz....

Riley: Yes.

Bell: There’s something going on in the Dominican Republic and they are preparing now....they were in full denial about anything going on but I read an AP story that said.....there is going to be a mass innoculation in the entire Dominican Republic.....so something’s going on. If you don’t know anything about it, I’d appreciate your researching it.

Riley: I will do that. I can’t speak first hand about it. I’ve heard the same stories you have but I will get with him on that because I know he is the purveyor of information on that subject.

Bell: He is, although, it’s beginning to get out, elsewise. First time caller line you’re on the air with Joyce Riley. Hello.

Caller: Hello, is that for me?

Bell: Yes, that’s for you. Where are you?

Caller: Thank you. I’m in Ventura, California.

Bell: Alright.

Caller: I would like.....What I have to say is too long for this program but I am so grateful to hear Joyce talk because I have information to contribute that goes back ‘til after the Hiroshima bombing. My husband was in the military, nearly all of his life, and he died from effects. In the Balboa Navy Hospital, in San Diego, I have information.....when I was hospitalized there.....that you wouldn’t believe that went on. There was an Admiral Cruz, that I believe was......

Bell: What I would like you to do, you’re right we don’t have time. We are coming to the end of the show.

Caller: But I would like to find out how to find out documentations about the first part of this program that I missed and, also, how I may contribute.

Bell: Alright. First of all, we only have time to get the right kind of information out. You will give, free of charge, a video to Gulf War vets.

Riley: Correct.

Bell: The real Gulf War vets, right?

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: How do they get it?

Riley: Call 281-587-5437.

Bell: Free of charge to any Gulf War vets. Now, item 2: The general public can receive the same video but you are charging for that.

Riley: That’s correct.

Bell: And how do they get that?

Riley: They can get the video.....they can get the Reigle Report......we now have the 550 pages Reigle report.......or this biological document we were just talking about.......1-800-201-7892 ext 40.....and we do appreciate the help.

Bell: Now, when people want to generally contact you or talk to you....do you have an email address? Are there other ways to contact you? If somebody wants you to speak, again this number, 281-587-5437?

Riley: That’s correct and I have an email address.....gulfwar@flash.net.


Bell: This has been.....it always is.....it’s a rough evening when I spent it with you, Joyce. It’s sad. It makes me cynical. It makes me angry and tonight was no exception. It’s a state I’ve been in a lot lately.

Riley: Well, you know, Art, it’s improving, though. We know the truth, now, and we can start doing something about it. We also are going......as far as I am concerned....I, America, am going to say to the Federal Government, ‘I am not afraid of the Pentagon....I am not afraid of the CIA. We are not going to be your guinea pigs any longer. I am not afraid of you and do not think that silencing us will silence our story. It will only make us stronger.’

Bell: Thank you, Joyce.

Riley: Thank you.

Bell: Good night.

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